How Code Monkey Feels About Their Paying Customers & Missing Deadlines since 2004

DLOB's picture

This is a commentary by a co-founder of Code Monkey Mynex on the subject of yet more delays within their forum topic. Believe it or not, this is the co-owner of a business who has been advertizing this non-existent product since 2004. Perhaps other people have been less than generous in their comments, but I saw nothing in any of the comments that stated CMP was incompetent or that these delays were mucking up their games. Bare in mind that the strongest language used is quoted by Mynex in his reply...

Just to get this out up front, the use of You/Yours are a generic 'everyone you' and not
specifically bjreynen, his post just comes up convienently to address some comments
that have been repeatedly stated by a few people.
This post is meant to address those 'few' people, so yes, that does include bjreynen, but
just him alone.

bjreynen wrote:
Finally, I think you're missing the point of my posts... First, I'm venting frustration as a paying
customer at yet another delay. I think after waiting more than two years I'm entitled.

Sure you are, no is saying you're not. No one has a problem with that. We voice our own
irritation/frustration about his fact from time to time.

bjreynen wrote:
Second, I'm trying to help Code Monkey understand the basics of managing deadlines and
expectations.
_THIS_ is the offensive comment/attitude that a number of people have had/taken that
is ticking off so many, including us owners.
1. We understand it very well.
2. Who the hell do you think you are to think you have the right, the skill, and the
cojones to 'teach' us anything? If we asked for 'teachers' that'd be different.
This point isn't up for discussion any further. Too many people are assuming that we're
incompetent or don't give a monkey's butt about things, so they think that it's their god
given right to educate us.
No, it's not. So don't.
Vent all you like, don't get arrogant and assume you have _ANY_ right to 'teach' CMP
anything.

bjreynen wrote:
This isn't about coding anymore, its about maintaining credibility.
*sigh* Maybe to you, maybe to 100 people, maybe to 1000 people.

Guess what? That's not your call, it's ours. To us, it's about the coding, period.
The coding is going to be right, and damn deadlines, damn the calander, and damn
anyone who doesn't like that.

If you haven't bought the pre-order for RPGF, then you honestly don't have excuse one
to open your mouth and bitch about how long we're taking, or that we've missed
deadlines, or that we're costing you money, or we're mucking up your game because it's
not out yet.

The last two REALLY piss me off personally. If you haven't bought the pre-order, flat out,
shut the hell up. You have no right, none whatsoever, to even begin bitching about
lateness, you have nothing, _ZERO_ invested in RPGF in any capacity.
And if before you come back with "Ah, but I bought data sets for use with RPGF because
you said you were going to do a convertor" - Yes, we are going to do a converter,
however, that does not change the fact that both e-tools and pcgen data sets are usable
now, so you can get use out of your existing purchases. If you choose not to, that's your
problem.

"Mucking up your game" - I'm not even going into this beyond this statement: "If we're
mucking up your game with a software that's not even out yet, you have far more
pressnig concerns that gaming, like getting a grip on reality."
I could go on for a quite a while longer, but I have better things to do, like maybe work
on RPGF eh?
_________________
W. Robert Reed III
Mynex
- #1 Evil Monkey
- Code Monkey Publishing Co-Founder
- Summum Malorum Simius
Elwyn

DLOB's picture

Yet Another Unhappy CMP customer...

mynex wrote:...
The last two REALLY piss me off personally. If you haven't bought the pre-order, flat out, shut the hell up. You have no right, none whatsoever, to even begin bitching about lateness, you have nothing, _ZERO_ invested in RPGF in any capacity.

Being one of the folks who came to CMP's site in response to seeing that "PRG Toolkit" add the very first time it appeared in Dragon Mag...

I got all excited about the RPGT when I saw that ad, I knew CMP made official datafiles for PCGen and stuff, but was a dedicated user of DMGenie, and I chose that program after trying literally like a dozen programs.

When I read on the old CMP site that there would be a free upgrade from PCGen datafiles to RPGT files, I decided to start buying PCGen datafiles and switched to that program for my games. This was money I didn't necessarily have, but got by postponing the purchase of some desired RPG books and such.

Here we are, 2+ years later and what do I have... some datafiles that will be 'maintained' until Dec 2008, not even a crude demo of the program that was at the center of my decisions.

I understand setbacks and changes in coding libraries purchased from other companies etc. Heck I have a B.S. in CS/MIS and a M.A. in Comp Resource Info Mgmt. and have even taught introductory programming at two local colleges. I can empathize with what CMP has gone through. I even undertand that they couldn't control what WotC decided about renewing CMP's license.

That being said, I believe my purchases from CMP, being based on what THEY advertised and what THEY posted to their website at least gives me the right to speak up at my disatisfaction it's taken this long. I don't have to have pre-ordered a program that is like nearly two-years overdue to say I'm not happy. CMP ALREADY has a good peice of my money, money they got based on what are just now unfillable promises (free dataset trade-in).

Mynex, I supported your attempt on the DMGenie forums to 'feel out' the possiblity of making datasets for DMGenie. Hell I welcomed it. But to hear you tell people "shut up if you haven't given me MORE of your money" makes me sick. I thought you had more class than that.

WHat you now have is one less buyer of RPGF than you would have had.

Thanks. a lot.

The Dark Lord of Bartlett
Chadarius's picture

I found the link to the thread

Interesting read.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtop...

Mynex is definately sensitive about the state of the product and maybe the company. I don't blame him. Perhaps he should have just said, "I understand your feelings. I am also disappointed about the progress of the product. What can I do help?"

But, he didn't. I gave up on them long before you did, but I also didn't invest anything into datasets or pre-orders either.

 

Later, Chadarius -- Lords of Tyr site admin

Later, Chadarius -- Lords of Tyr site admin
Chadarius's picture

Interesting reaction

Did you post this on their forums or something? I would love to see what other people are saying. What's the link?

Later,
Chadarius -- Lords of Tyr site admin

Later, Chadarius -- Lords of Tyr site admin
DLOB's picture

Yet More...

Here's further examples..

Wizard_Thoarin wrote:You do know that CMP is planning on releasing a conversion tool to convert your PCGen or E-Tools datasets over to RPGF don't you. The conversion may not be perfect but it should get you close and at least save you a lot of data entry time. ...

Sheesh, talking about missing the point...

Yes the datafiles will NOW be 'convertable' through (quoting mynex) "an unsupported alpha-version conversion tool". (read "we're gonna whip something up but your results are definately going to vary".

BUT the general complaint/issue is how long it's been taking for RPGT/RPGF to get here, the changes in the sitiuation, etc.

MY issue is with how Mynex has responded to alll the complaining. Yes some people have been out of hand and needed a little "who the heck do you think you are" smack, but telling people to 'shut up unless you've pre-ordered our hugely delayed product that has no definate release date' is a line that no publisher should cross (at least not in any written form).

Wizard_Thoarin, I glad to see you are perfectly happy with the situation. I was 'ok' with it... WAS being the operative term.

The Dark Lord of Bartlett
DLOB's picture

Yet Another Unsatisfied Customer...

The war of words continues on the CMP site.  Here's another customer who is a little irritated with getting nothing for his money.

I just think that it is BS that CMP has you pay for something that is in the works - then WOTC pulls the plug on them and then you can't get your money back for a product that is not being delivered on the time line that was originally said.

I have asked for my money back 3 times and have recieved no response from anyone - shady...

Sorry!!!

The Dark Lord of Bartlett
DLOB's picture

The Reaction

Yep, I posted my commentary on their site.  I finally gave them one final though about not attacking their customer base and said goodbye.  Unfortunately for me, I pre-ordered their vaporware.

 Oh yeah...  Here's more brilliance from Code Monkey...

 As for Personally 'insulting' someone, I have Zero_ problems doing so to someone's face. Did so at GenCon to a couple of people that were popping off at the mouth at us about RPGF being late.

I have plenty of manners & customer service skills, been doing it a loooooong time before CMP was around. Might want to brush up on your 'customer skills', they're a bit lacking.

What I'm seeing, and have been seeing for a long time, since oh, this internet thing got popular... Is that a lot of people think they have the right to pop off about anything and everything... And that's fine... People just have to remember when you do it on the forum owners own forum, you they have the right to drill you right back... Most don't out of 'fear of customer reprisal'... We don't suffer that fear here. We like to interact with our customers, even if they have issues over things. And usually I don't care too much what forums it's on... I don't suffer from "Internet Bravery/Real Life Cowardace"... Bah, I could go on a whole rant about this particular topic, but I'll save it for another time...

What are CUSTOMER SKILLS??

These guys have a lot more problems than their time tables these days.

The Dark Lord of Bartlett
DLOB's picture

Yet Even More

mynex wrote:...
The last two REALLY piss me off personally. If you haven't bought the pre-order, flat out, shut the hell up. You have no right, none whatsoever, to even begin bitching about lateness, you have nothing, _ZERO_ invested in RPGF in any capacity.

Being one of the folks who came to CMP's site in response to seeing that "PRG Toolkit" add the very first time it appeared in Dragon Mag...

I got all excited about the RPGT when I saw that ad, I knew CMP made official datafiles for PCGen and stuff, but was a dedicated user of DMGenie, and I chose that program after trying literally like a dozen programs.

When I read on the old CMP site that there would be a free upgrade from PCGen datafiles to RPGT files, I decided to start buying PCGen datafiles and switched to that program for my games. This was money I didn't necessarily have, but got by postponing the purchase of some desired RPG books and such.

Here we are, 2+ years later and what do I have... some datafiles that will be 'maintained' until Dec 2008, not even a crude demo of the program that was at the center of my decisions.

I understand setbacks and changes in coding libraries purchased from other companies etc. Heck I have a B.S. in CS/MIS and a M.A. in Comp Resource Info Mgmt. and have even taught introductory programming at two local colleges. I can empathize with what CMP has gone through. I even undertand that they couldn't control what WotC decided about renewing CMP's license.

That being said, I believe my purchases from CMP, being based on what THEY advertised and what THEY posted to their website at least gives me the right to speak up at my disatisfaction it's taken this long. I don't have to have pre-ordered a program that is like nearly two-years overdue to say I'm not happy. CMP ALREADY has a good peice of my money, money they got based on what are just now unfillable promises (free dataset trade-in).

Mynex, I supported your attempt on the DMGenie forums to 'feel out' the possiblity of making datasets for DMGenie. Hell I welcomed it. But to hear you tell people "shut up if you haven't given me MORE of your money" makes me sick. I thought you had more class than that.

WHat you now have is one less buyer of RPGF than you would have had.

Thanks. a lot.

The Dark Lord of Bartlett